Curse

draxynnic · Jan 28, 2009, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

This got me thinking about something :

1.We know that Dhuum was killed and his port-folio was taken by grenth
2. We know Abbadon was imprisoned in the realm, his portfolio included truth/secret and sea.
3. From what I recall, Grenth is the god of frost, not exactly water.
4. All profession are tied to 1 god(...where to begin) or multiple gods(elementalist, Dervish)
5. Abbadon's port folio included truth, I think a mad souls hint he started like Kormir and later became god of secret (hypocrisy, corruption? I don't know).

Are you referring to the Apostate, who pointed out that there was another god before Abaddon?

Personally, I'm inclined to think that the main part of the portfolio of Abaddon and Kormir is knowledge, and they focussed on different parts. Likewise for water, with Abaddon focussing on the ocean and Grenth on the frozen form of water, but at the time Abaddon was cast down, for some reason they were only able to strip a portion of his power.

Steps_Descending · Jan 28, 2009, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Are you referring to the Apostate, who pointed out that there was another god before Abaddon?

Personally, I'm inclined to think that the main part of the portfolio of Abaddon and Kormir is knowledge, and they focussed on different parts.

The second part makes sense.

Thank for the Apostate, somehow I always forget he exists.
Also, after checking the mad souls' lines :

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiki (mad Soul)

"A new God is born! A god that will destroy the others and bring about the end of the world! The cycle begins again!
Kormir. How brave you were to join us in the Realm of Torment. How mad you were to choose to never leave
When you walk dark paths, you open your mind to nightmare. Poor Kormir, poor sad goddess raised up to the stars, cursed to see only infinite blackness between them

All of those hint that Kormir shouldn't stay in the Realm of Torment. The first and last ones that Kormir could be tainted by the Realm. The first one even talks about a cycle. The port folio could very well indeed be knowledge, starting as truth and slowly corrupting to secret.

Konig Des Todes · Jan 28, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiki (mad Soul)

"A new God is born! A god that will destroy the others and bring about the end of the world! The cycle begins again!
Kormir. How brave you were to join us in the Realm of Torment. How mad you were to choose to never leave
When you walk dark paths, you open your mind to nightmare. Poor Kormir, poor sad goddess raised up to the stars, cursed to see only infinite blackness between them

All of those hint that Kormir shouldn't stay in the Realm of Torment. The first and last ones that Kormir could be tainted by the Realm. The first one even talks about a cycle. The port folio could very well indeed be knowledge, starting as truth and slowly corrupting to secret.

I think the "cycle" part refers to that all of the gods eventually will be killed and replaced. Overall, I think these quotes are meant to mean that Kormir will eventually become corrupted and attack the other gods - as could Grenth, Balthazar, and the others. As draxynnic once hypothesized,

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

The thought strikes me that if Abaddon 'comes back' by posessing Kormir...

...How would we know that it's Abaddon and not Abaddon's ur-predecessor? What if the domain of knowledge is essentially cursed, so that everyone who picks up the mantle will go mad eventually and all each successor can do is hold on for as long as they can?

This could be extended to other domains as well. Maybe Death has a similar issue, with Grenth simply being at a different stage of the life cycle. Maybe Menzies was the elder brother, and Balthazar stepped in when he went around the bend. Maybe Dwayna and Melandru are the only one who's portfolio's are 'safe' (this would match the theory based on them both having wings in some depictions that they're the original gods while the wingless deities... aren't) and that Lyssa isn't known to have a rival just means it was long enough ago that she'll be next to go around the bend?

As they say, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts entirely.

...But I digress.

This was in response to me stating that over on GWO that people have been thinking Abaddon will return by taking over Kormir. (Thread name is "Abaddon is alive" - it can be found in the second post of the Archives *it's stickied* too busy to look it up now).

Free Runner · Jan 28, 2009, 06:31 PM // 18:31

The Mad Soul dialogue looks more like random ramblings based on what they saw with Abaddon rather than a hint at the gods becoming corrupted. Infact all of the dialogue seems to point out that becoming a god is a curse rather than a blessing - the opposite to what some "sane" people would think. Razah demonstrates the same path of thinking with a comment about the gods not being able to take part in what they created.

draxynnic · Jan 29, 2009, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Which actually ties in nicely to my theory - becoming a god is a curse because those that we know of that have supplanted a god (Grenth over Dhuum, Kormir over Abaddon, Abaddon over his predecessor) have, with the possible exception of Abaddon, done so because the previous deity was corrupted and needed to be replaced... and in the case of Abaddon, while we don't know much about his predecessor except that he had one, we do know Abaddon himself became corrupted.

Essentially, if the portfolio is open to be claimed, that's because it has in the past shown that it has the potential to corrupt the one who holds it - those that don't are still in the hands of those that originally held them, unless there were also cases of peaceful hand-offs in power in the past (we really need to get into the other god realms sometime

). Now, it's possible that a suitably strong-willed personality may be able to hold off the corrupting influence indefinitely and break the cycle - but as far as the Mad Soul knows, Kormir is just the next link in the chain.

Konig Des Todes · Jan 29, 2009, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Which actually ties in nicely to my theory - becoming a god is a curse because those that we know of that have supplanted a god (Grenth over Dhuum, Kormir over Abaddon, Abaddon over his predecessor) have, with the possible exception of Abaddon, done so because the previous deity was corrupted and needed to be replaced... and in the case of Abaddon, while we don't know much about his predecessor except that he had one, we do know Abaddon himself became corrupted.

And, if the possibility of Arachnia being Abaddon's predecessor is true, then his predecessor was evil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Now, it's possible that a suitably strong-willed personality may be able to hold off the corrupting influence indefinitely and break the cycle - but as far as the Mad Soul knows, Kormir is just the next link in the chain.

It is also possible that one person may go insane, but not evilly insane. The corruption could be why the other gods have abandoned the world and don't show themselves even in the Rift. And why their avatars - which don't go insane - are what communicate with mortals.

Free Runner · Jan 29, 2009, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Did Abaddon become corrupted though? if i remember correctly he and the gods had different ways of thinking (Keep magic vs get rid of magic) and in order to put his way of thinking over the other 5, he attacked them directly. That doesnt indicate corruption - all it shows is he was rather angry at his gift being rejected and thought he had a chance to correct this. He then lost the battle and was put away for a thousand years with only revenge in his mind.

So i'm not sure how we all came to the conclusion he was corrupted...it seems more like he was driven to madness by his imprisonment rather than a curse.

Konig Des Todes · Jan 30, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

So i'm not sure how we all came to the conclusion he was corrupted...it seems more like he was driven to madness by his imprisonment rather than a curse.

That is how we came to corruption. His imprisonment, not prior, did so.

Of course, it is also possible he was "evil" prior to his imprisonment - but that is more on theory than fact, as is him being "angry."

Free Runner · Jan 30, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

That is how we came to corruption. His imprisonment, not prior, did so.

But that defies the point that was being made - that being a god is a curse. Abaddon only got to that stage because of his imprisonment, not due to a curse that he took on from the beginning of his run as a god.

So the theory:
New god -> Eventually becomes corrupted -> Someone supplants said god -> New God -> Repeat cycle

But in Abaddons case it was:

Beat god (Unknown if due to the god being evil or not) -> Abaddon becomes god -> Bloodstone crisis happens -> Gods vs Abaddon -> Imprisonment of Abaddon for 1000 years -> Failed revenge -> New god takes Abaddons place

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

as is him being "angry."

The translated background lore on Abaddon vs the gods pretty much states that he was angry at their decision. So its not a theory.